How to get out of DEBT – Personal Debt Management Webinar


Well, yeah. So, Caribbean to this webinar for Basil Africa. Um as always, we are going to be handling all the questions. Um maybe we can handle actually the question because this one is not more of a presentation. It's more of AQ and A we're going to be handling the questions as they come in. So, kindly check them on the chat box. Um if you're on Facebook Live, uh feel free to ask us the questions on the messenger which I'll answer them as we go along. Um we are to be talking about that we are also going to be talking about something that I have seen you right? passionately about which is black cats. Yeah, Just a few.


uh just a few insights on black tarts. So, Ariana Yes. And feel free to tell us what you have done yourself for yourself to be debt free. First, introduce yourself. Hi, guys. My name is A um II am a property manager at a company called AJ Capital and Investments in Dubai. So, I am based in Dubai. I've been here for 2 years now but I am, I was born in Kenya.


I grew up in Kenya. I just moved here 2 years ago. Apart from that, I have um a blog called the Tribe which is like uh um and there was tribe is a blog and uh of young people who aim to speak um honestly to have candid conversations about our financial journeys and also to help each other building to build wealth. So, the World Tribe is all about building wealth together as a community of young people and so in there, we have webinars such as what is hosting Um I write about my personal journey and also encourage other people to write it the articles and yeah, that is what um I do.


That is my nine to five job and my blog and movement is my side hustle. Yeah. to add on to that your side hustle actually is an income generating side hustle. So, you will tell us about that as well. Um how you can maybe turn your side hustle for anybody who's interested and uh how you can turn your side hustle into an income generating stream. Yes. Yes. So, tell us about that. Um I will start off by telling you guys about my story. Uh so that's after I'm done. you can shoot all the questions you have about it. So, um I finished in November. 2016 and as soon as II graduated, I got a job and I remember my first job um from November 2016, I was getting paid 50 thousand K Shillings and I remember when um I got my letter, I called my best friend and I asked him, hey, this is this a lot of money and then if he was like, yeah, that's a lot of money.


He told me that these guys are paying me uh a lot of money as compared How much money graduates? fresh graduates in Kenya and so for me, I was very excited and it planted this idea in me that I make a lot of money and so what happened? Uh I went ahead to um to accumulate stuff, like to start by myself stuff just like girls and women like doing. I went I was on an overhaul to buy myself as many clothes as possible hair, makeup, all these things and with time, I realized that um my money was not enough. I was you. I'd get paid at the end of the month and by fifteen, I ask a question that is being to a lot of us.


Where did my money go? And so of course, it was a situation where I was living paycheck to paycheck and had zero control over my money and then the worst happened Um I discovered mobile money loans. You know, I was on branch or cash. I'm sure you can see all those I used I was in a cycle of borrowing Peter to people. So, when my branch loan was due, I would go to take a loan and pay branch and then, when the loan is do take uh uh a loan on or or something. there are so many. I was in like ten of them. uh take uh a lot of cash and pay I'm sorry and so the cycle continued and um of course this was caused by both uh me living above my means but the main reason I do know that I got into this situation was because I was never taught personal finance, financial literacy in school. Nobody ever give us that class and in my home, I was raised nano. None of my parents ever or even my siblings ever had a conversation with me about personal finance.


So, it's just like everybody else. I found myself in this adulting situation where I was supposed to manage myself and manage my money with zero knowledge on how I was supposed to do it and so, 1 Day, I was on my way to to and then as on my way on my own II received this call and so this guy asked me, and it was a debt collector from one of the mobile money loans and I told him I was going to pay the money back the money in a week.


He told me a week is too long I don't I don't have the money to pay the debt on that same day. So he told me he doesn't care. Um he told for you. I don't think I've ever been that scared in my life and also at that moment, I felt like a failure like I had failed at this thing called adulting because how is it possible that on a demonic? Well, when I'm committing to ask somebody who's calling me to threaten my life and so, I remember on my way to work that day II felt really scared where she can and that was one of the most terrible days in my life and so when I went home that evening, I started asking myself, How is it possible that how is it possible? And so now, this life-threatening call came in um at around mid twenty mid 2018.


Uh so I ask myself, how is it possible that a single lady like me with no children actually II don't have like primary, another primary responsibility apart from myself. How is it possible that um I'm not able to manage myself financially? Why am I living paycheck to paycheck? Why am I in so much debt? Because loans alone. I had like around 100. 150 K of Mobile money loans. That is a lot considering that these people only give you like thirty K at maximum and I remember at some point, I was bragging to my aunt that hey, Mimi, in 25 thousand that time it was five K When I think of me today, I'm like, what was that even bragging about? Like maybe that was a point of, you know, um uh a bragging point and So, when I went home that day after the and also and also to add to the fact that apart from the all that money loan that I had, hair loans.


Um so, we all know when you go to Public Uni, uh you apply for the the loan and most of us apply for this loan without having a plan on how we are going to pay it back. We just like attached to to to me in inside. I do not regret taking their hair blown because that was the only way I could find my university education. Um unfortunately, I didn't have um well of parents would pay for me the school fees. So, I do that is not a regret but the regret is that I got myself into deeper debt without having a plan on how to get out. So, anyway, I went back home and I started asking myself, how is it possible that I have no kids Uh and yet I mean so much that and so that's how I started googling. um how to get out of debt, how to make a financial plan and I started reading all these stories and watching all you YouTube videos and I realized, hi, so it's I'm not it's it's not a me problem.


That was my one of the most amazing things. I realized that it's not a me problem. It's not an a problem. It is an underlying problem where adults are moving around the city of Nairobi and the streets of Kenya and they have no idea how to manage their money and so that was my wake up call. Um the life threatening call and me reading. So, I started reading um how to get out of debt and stuff like that and then 1 day in at the beginning. So, by by reading all these things, that's when that's when I started having a financial plan III, it was an old self taught thing. I read how to create a budget, how to get it, and I started making a plan and that is how I got to myself.


Um to a better financial situation. So, So, when you mentioned that I got II officially became the tree at the beginning of this year and so, what are some of the things that I did to get out of debt? Um no about how I got out of debt is like I have a small presentation uh or a few slides or I wouldn't to teach you like the things you can do to get out of debt but so that's what happened Like um I taught myself how to create a budget, how to get out of debt, how to manage my money, how to start investing, and one of major things.


Um which ask me about one of the major things I did is start my blog and I remember when I started my blog, I didn't start it as a way to educate other people. It was a private blog where I it was a journal. It was a personal journal where I decided that I'm going to be documenting. It was a way to keep myself accountable where I was going to be documenting my progress.


So, if I paid the debt, I would go on there and and document that hey, I paid because I was all the friends. I also I also own friends. I also owned by it. It was deep. I was defeated so, I would I would document it and so 1 Day, I randomly started sharing the blog with friends and my friends started telling me I wasn't sharing with the public, just my friends and so my friends started telling me uh yeah, now you start writing more on this thing. Even me, I have I'm I'm sucking that even I don't know how to invest as I started asking them. So, how are you guys worrying through life if you don't know these things and that I'm the only one I know that I know these things.


They're like, so you better start teaching us and so that's how the world became a thing because now people started asking me, how do I do this? And anytime somebody has to ask me, how do I get out of debt? How do I create a budget? How do I invest in X? So, I would write an article as a reply because I knew I'll I'll get many more people asking me and so with time, it became aside an income generating hassle where I'm I can make money from that blog in three ways.


One, financial coaching. So, I do help people who are stuck in there, who don't know how to create a budget, who don't know how to invest, how don't don't have a financial plan. So, in that way, um financial coaching, I also make money from it through ads. If you go to my to my blog, you'll see a few ads uh done by Google and I also sell advertising space.


So, if you have a business and you want it um advertised to like the people who did the blog per month. I do that and then I also make money through affiliate marketing. So, affiliate marketing is where you sell other people's products So, like I sell stuff like on Amazon if if they stuff good stuff. I find on Amazon like books or even for example, in Africa has a program um that they want to sell. I can put it on there and people will sign up and I earn a commission through that and and actually my blog is one of the things that um so from my debts payment plan, I was supposed to be debt free on February 2022 because my plan was to pay 10 thousand shillings every month and by Feb 2022, I would have cleared uh my helper which was the only loan remaining in 2019 and 2020 but then my blog started making money and I remember my last payment from my last payment.


I paid 53 K and I was like, the craziest thing is all this money, all the money I had an ad from a and from coaching and it was just a shortcut to me how a small passion has has now become something that pays a huge chunk of my bills. not all of them. It's still not there. So, it's still something that I'm working on. It's so it's something that has been a huge some of my bills and so my blog is my side hustle is the thing that made me uh become that free 10 months earlier than I had planned. So, that is my me And so from that, maybe you guys can ask questions and I can also like to do a presentation of the three strategies that you can use to also achieve that freedom or manage your debt better.


Yeah, Alright, thank you so much, Agatha. I think um you can share the presentation as we See whether there are any questions that are coming in. I know someone might is actually very interested in this conversation. Titus, I know you can hear me. Um he is one of the people who are very passionate about uh young people getting into financial freedom. um and coaching um people to invest nicely and all that. Um he is in Catholic University. I know you can hear me So, I would want you to give us a maybe something that you have come across at maybe at the end of the presentation maybe something that you have come across when you're dealing with the students. um at the university and when it comes to that and how they can become financially free or debt free. Sorry, financial freedom is something that we all want to achieve. We all want to at some point Um get to that level where I don't know.


I for me, for me, financial freedom is where I wake up and I know my money is working for me. I can decide play golf. Um on a Monday morning at 6 AM. Yeah. At 6 AM. Knowing that money is working for me and I can go for shopping without comparing prices That is financial freedom for me. I don't know what your financial freedom is. Okay. Oh, okay. That's interesting. Uh I think that's my financial freedom is getting rid of morning alarms That's my indicator of I think it's yeah, that that's the day I will be able to never set. I'm wearing alarm in my life. I know I'll have become financially free or attend financial freedom because I hate mornings. I hate alarms. I have going to morning meetings. I had people calling me in the morning. I had anything He was speaking to me in the morning.


So, Wow. Yeah. If I could be a situation where I do have because right now, I do have to use money because I have a nine to five job. I hate it. So, yeah, if I get to a point where I can actually tell my boots, I'll show up at a time and he'll be like, okay, yeah. So, that's what we will be my financial freedom. That is financial freedom for you. Yeah. Alright. There's someone who has asked a question. I don't know whether you're able to share the presentation I look up to make me a horse or something. because Oh, I think I think I can share. Let me do it and then, yeah, let me do it. Yeah. And you guys can tell me. You can see present. You guys can see my screen. Yes, we can. Um okay, cool. So, yeah, I already shared my story um and so from that death story, I wanted to teach you guys or anyone who's in this forum who's struggling with that.


The three strategies that you can use to get out of debt um but before I even start uh sharing, I wanted to tell you guys that people are obsessed about the idea of investing which is nice. You know, like people uh people obsessed with. Oh, I saw this investment that has 24% to 18% to 15% Return. Let me get into it right now. Let me even take a loan from my friends right now. Let me take my emergency fund and and invest in it right now because you do not want to be left behind but people forget that in this world. there are only two The usual Debt Management is so important is because there are only two ways to make a guaranteed return in the financial world paying back your debt and minimizing your taxes if you can. Those are the only two ways to make a guaranteed return. So, even before you start your obsession on, um Jumping on. Jumping on the bandwagon on all these investments. Uh you see, the first thing you should do is manage your debt and so the three Debt strategies that you can use to manage your debt.


Um the first one is called the agency method which is something I came up with from my dad's story and I'll teach you about it. Then there's a snowball method. This is a very common one and also the Avalanche method Um so, the urgency me from my story uh I you. that one of the things that was most challenging is stress, Especially that time when I when I received the life threatening call, I was very stressed. I was very anxious and we've seen that um a lot of people who's who have a lot of loads of debt the emotional well being, it affects their emotional well being. So, the urgency method is all about um recognizing the fact that that affects your emotional well being. Um and one of the ways is through their life threatening messages from that collection and also your reputation suffers.


For example, if you or your neighbor's money, uh if you owe your neighbors money or even your work mates or even your relatives, even your parents money, uh it affects your reputation because people talk, people talk about um so you'll often hear and so obviously that affects your reputation II. See people who are so deep in that they do not even open.


WhatsApp messages on the notification bar because they do not ever want to be online because they know where they go online. One of the things that's um will be popping is so that is why the urgency method um is important. So, how does the agency that work? So, what you need to do is list all the people and the institutions you owe and then assign them an agency tag. So, for example, an agency tag would be to clear immediately blacklisted urgent not urgent or to pay in X days, weeks, or months. So, this is how to create a simple excel sheet like this one. and assign each debt that you have an emergency. So, for example, this person owes 100 $100 has a credit card debt, 1300, um worth of credit card debt has another credit card debt, uh 5500, 5560, or $100, and had a payday loan of 351 Well, uh USB and so there's another column for interest rates.


All you have to do is find out the interest rate of the loans that you have. So, for John, it's 0%. This is probably a friend that this person owes. then the credit card in this case is 32%. Uh I do hope you guys know that credit card debt is one of the worst debts that you could get yourself into especially if you do not read the fine print or if you do not know how credit card debt works and then so the other one is on 18%. Um Saco is on 8% and this pay the loan is at 300% So, by making this list and assigning an agency, tag, this person knows that uh the money they owe on is urgent. Um the credit card has a two-year payment plan. The the second credit card is not urgent uh which which is very unlikely for a credit card. Um the is legit clearance and for the payday loans, this person is blacklisted. So, when you make such a list, um you're able to decide which Debt you be. So, for example, in this case, this person is should start by paying this blacklisted loan because being blacklisted means that you're in the CRV for the wrong reasons um and that means that in future you're jeopardizing your prospects of ever securing a loan from any financial institution.


So, this person would need to start by tackling the payday loan and then go to it. Um the go to John and then the credit card one and then finally, credit card too because in this case, they know which one is the most urgent because one of the things that people struggle with when it comes to that payment is which Debt do I pay off fast. So, making this list will actually answer that question So why? Why the agency listing your debts on a spreadsheet is very liberating and so now, I actually get to answer one of the ways I got out of debt II literally opened an excel sheet and made a list of all the debts that I owed all of them, the institutions, and the people and listing your debts. um putting creating a spreadsheet and leasing all your debts is liberating in that.


You remove that stress from your head and put it on your excel sheet. It's an action oriented thing where you're like, yeah, it's face You know, it's ripping the band-aid and facing all the debts that you have. at least your debts on a spreadsheet, it's really in that way uh and and for me, that was the first step towards getting out of debt. It's it's accepting that this is my situation and I as an adult, I'm taking responsibility of this situation and that I'm going to handle it and so with less anxiety people get the logic behind personal finance knowledge and talk openly about money when you're anxious You're stressed when you're trying to avoid people. Um a lot of people from my personal coaching experience and from my experience with that, you do, you will never understand the logic of getting out of debt or the logic of investing or personal finance if you're anxious, you first have to deal with your anxiety by um taking responsibility of the fact that yes, I am in debt and these are my debts and then the pride of clearing the first life threatening Debt will motivate you to do better and eventually financial freedom.


So, going back to my story when I cleared that loan because it was the first loan that II that loan. Um from there, I think it was from their life threatening from the life threatening call. I was like, if I could pay that one, then I can clear all the other. So, like I was so proud of myself where I like I know that uh because what happens is that as soon as you clear like threatening calls or or or I mean deaths or deaths that are um threatening your reputation then you sleep better. You know that nobody's gossiping about your inability to pay back the debt. Nobody's going to threaten your life. Uh so your life is easy So, so the point of clearing the first life threatening this will motivate you to do better and eventually attain that freedom and then it maintains healthy relationships needed for my for your financial freedom. You need people, you need people, you need your family, you need your friends for you to achieve that freedom Um and so it is important one of the things that people forget about um dead that women, it's not all about you.


It's all about. it's also all about the relationships that you that you create because it's important to have relationship with your friends where you can randomly call them and tell them, hey, I see you lend me. Um 200 K and and this friend sends you the 200 K without even asking you uh of course, it's important to us but when you have such a close relationship with someone where you can ask them for such a huge amount of money, it means that you can invest in your business without paying the hefty interest rates that come with um Debt from Banks or circles or Shy Locks.


So, that is why It's uh I mean that is what the agency made. It works. It's all about managing your emotions and your reputation and then another way to get out of debt is using the Dutch Noble Method. This is a method that was devised by Dave Ramsey. He's also a financial freedom educator. So, what you need to do in this case is make a list of all your debts from the smallest to the largest except your mortgage because you know, a mortgage has different rules.


So, what you need to do in this case is ignore the interest rates and then pay the minimum amount due on each debt except the smallest debt. So, minimum payment is the smallest amount out of what you owe that the financial institutions requires you to pay each month. So, for example, if you have a debt loan or a credit card loan, they tell you that this is the minimum payment that you need to pay each month. You can pay more depending on the contract but this is the minimum payment that use a minimum. You and I will have an issue. So, make list of all your debts and then pay the minimum amount due on each debt and then pay your smallest debt in full.


If it's a big debt and you're unable to pay in full pay as much as you can and you repeat the process until you've paid all your debts. So, this one as a summary, make a list of all your debts and then start with the smallest debts and then the smallest Debt to go to the the the other the smallest one, the the smallest one until you tackle all the biggest Debt and so for example, if we could go Back to these. excel sheet. The smallest debt in this **** If you have to use the snowball method would be you start by paying John and so when you pay John, you're like, hey, come on in then I can tackle the other debts and then you go to the payday loan because it's the second smallest and then you go to the uh loan then you go to the credit one and then you finally finish off credit to credit cards to um so why this snowball method You are literally creating hope with each debt that you pay.


Uh when somebody is deep in debt, what you need to get out of debt in the for a lot of people is really hope and hope is all about uh paying 1 day at a time and encouraging yourself that if I paid X then I can pay anything. I can get myself out of anything. So, hope is what will get you out of debt. one payment at a time uh because what happens is that if you do the opposite and start with the largest Debt, you'll get frustrated and give up. For example, in my case, if I started with hair blown which was the highest debt We're around 300. KI would have given up because it's such a huge debt and that's required me to because I paid my hair blown in four and a half, four and a half years. So, if I look, if I started with my help, I'll be like four and a half years.


No, I would have gotten frustrated and give up and you know, there's so much that can happen within 4.5 years. You can get to change uh lose your job, change your move countries and stuff like that which would hinder how fast you can get out of debt. So, that's why it's better to start with um the smallest debt and build up all the way to the biggest Debt Uh so just like a snowball rolling downhill, paying off debt is all about momentum. It's paying off.


Debt is not about uh clearing your debts in 1 day or the biggest Debt. It's all about momentum with every Debt that you pay off, you gain speed and if you're an unstoppable Debt crashing force Finally, the Avalanche method. Uh this one is for people who love numbers. So, if you're an Excel sheet, guru and you're the kind of person who sits down and you you crunching numbers and numbers are not a problem to you, choose this method. Um it's also known as the stacking. So, with this one, the interest rate determines which debt to pay off fast. Remember the that's snowball. I advice you to ignore the the interest rate in the debt snowball.


All you are doing is starting this small Debt in this one. You look at the interest, it's to determine which debts to pay off fast. So, in one. leave all your debts from the highest interest rate to the lowest. So, ignore the amount of size of debt. Uh pay the minimum amount due on all your debts except the one with the highest interest rate. Um pay the full amount of debt with the highest uh with the highest interest rate. If you're unable to pay the full amount, pay the highest amount possible.


Repeat until you've paid all your debt summary. list all your debts, ask yourself. So, let's go back to our excel sheet. The debt that's the he's interested right here is this one. Pay the loan. 300%. If there's nothing in this world, there's no investment in this world that you'll ever give you a 300% interest rate unless your business unless a business uh nothing will ever give you this amount of um return. So, that's why the Ala Method advises you to start with the highest interest rate. So, in this case, you'd start with the pay the loan and then go to the credit card and then go to credit cards to and then you finally Finish off with John.


So, why the Avalanche method works? It's financially efficient. You'll pay less amount of interest to financial institutions. So, instead of packing the 300% interest rate and you know, that is money that is coming from your paycheck or from uh you're saving the investment, what you're doing in this case is you're deciding me, I'm not going to pay all these interest rates to this uh banks or to these institutions. So, I will start with the highest interest rate and then the interests that you could be paying to the financial institutions could be directed to other such as building your emergency fund or even traveling the world. It doesn't necessarily have to be um it doesn't necessarily have to be investing why the the method doesn't work for a lot of people is if you're deep in debt, you need small wins to keep going.


So, for example, as I said, if I started with paying a hair blown, I would have given up because this thing was so much money. it would have taken me so much time that I would have given up and remember, it's paying that it's psychological. It's for a lot of people. It's not about the numbers for a lot of people. It's psychological to attain financial freedom faster. Use the method or snowball method because these two give you peace of mind but at the same time to become debt free, you need a debt pay off plan that works for you and you need to stick and you need to stick with it. So, out of three, three, ask yourself. um from my individual point of view or from my debt situation, which one works best for me. So, if your reputation is in line, start with the method Uh if you have me and you're wondering where do I begin to start with the snowball method? If you're a numbers person, if you if if uh if numbers get you excited and beating interest rates and competing with the institutions, uh gets you excited to start with the avalanche and you you can use all of them.


You can start with one and then the other um and so it's important to know that coming to terms with all the debt you're carrying can be a daunting experience like sitting down and writing, making a list of all the debt that you own is a hard renting experience because for me, when I remember when I made that list, I was like, how is it possible that I owe all these people that I'm in so much debt Uh but anyway, you need to step out of financial avoidance. um and rip the bandage because unfortunately, there's no silver bullets to that payment. Um the Silver Bullet Debt payment is you being a responsible adult coming to terms with all the debt that you're carrying and deciding that I'm going to get out of debt. I'm going to do something about it and um I will share with you a planner that incorporates this this debt payment method especially the debt snowball and the avalanche method and so this is an excel sheet that you'll be able to list all your debts and then it will do the math for you of uh which Debt you should tackle fast.


Which one is the most expensive? Um I'll do that. this call and so yeah, that's the end of my presentation. Yeah. So, those are the three strategies you can use. Yes. Interesting. Very interesting. I think um as you've said, writing them down and writing when it comes to your finances, the moment you sit down and write down from where you are to where you want to go. Um it's more like therapy. It's more like personal therapy. If you do not, if you're not willing to heal you want to But you're not going to, You're not willing to go through that process of wanting yourself to him.


You're never going to him. So, you need to actually be in a position of accepting the situation that you're in. Once you write everything down, you start accepting. This is the situation I'm in and you want to change. So, um after now writing them down and saying, oh my god, I owe more than ten people money. I need to start paying them off so that I can be, I think it's very good as you with the method um especially when it comes to personal reputation.


It's very good to walk around and knowing you don't know. You don't owe anyone and I think even the Bible says um a borrower is always a slave to the person you borrowed from here. So, we need to feel like we are debt free and unfortunately, we are in a world where especially in Kenya um it's a borrowing country. Yeah. you all so much. However, um if you can walk around knowing that you don't have debt for anything and anything that you want to, maybe it's a purchase that you want to do, you can actually plan. You're able now to plan and say there might not be any urgency in this. Let me plan for like the next 1 year 2 years.



Let me see how much I can save, how much I can put aside in maybe as an investment vehicle. Um so that can get probably the the the best interest rate and then I can purchase whatever I want to purchase here. I'm seeing a lot of if you walk around Nairobi right now, there are a lot of billboards on the when it comes to furniture, home decor items. I mean, when is it an agency? Is it an urgent need? I mean, you have been living in your house with your furniture. Yeah. Don't be tempted to go and borrow to buy See that depreciate in value because they will never appreciate in value whatsoever that depreciating value that what you need to do is just write down how much do you want to purchase a seat 100 K? How much do I need to save on a monthly basis on a weekly basis for me to get to that goal? So, I'm kind of tying down the debt management methods to personal financial planning um and thank you so much.


Agatha for sharing your journey with us. Um I can see there are few questions that have been asked. Um I'll just read them out out loud um from Wow, Good Stuff and thank you for sharing. What was the biggest challenge during your journey to being the tree and how did you conquer it? I think I can combine it to another one from Ng. Um congratulations on being the three your journey sounds like you had to break many habits that got you um that got into debt. How did you break those habits? Then, the next one is. so when they called you and threatened you, you told them you don't have cash. So, where did you get the cash to pay on that day? Did you have to borrow on that day to pay the urgent Debt? Because I think that's usually the issue. Yeah. So, um you end up borrowing from one person to pay off the other person. So, one ends up rushing in another Debt Yes, I think you can combine the three of them as the other scalp.


Okay. My biggest challenge. um in my debt free journey was anxiety. To be honest because like when you make, when I made a list of all these deaths, I was like, how am I doing? How am I going to do this? Because the the thing is I and and this is very personal and and that's why it's called personal finance for me II didn't have a parent or an older siblings or some or somebody of the sort that I could say this idea, you know, for example, when I received that call, I didn't have a parent or somebody of that could call and tell them these guys are threatening my life. Um how about you? You you come through for me and pay down this debt on my behalf and then it's it's unfortunate.


I mean, if you do have um such a relative or a friend that you could ask, it's a good call but for me that was my biggest challenge. the anxiety, the financial anxiety, sleepless nights, not being able to to know how I'm going to get myself out of this situation that I'm I got myself into um How did I tackled that anxiety? I tackled that anxiety by having a plan in that. I knew that I'm having sleepless nights because I don't know how to handle this that but I the other voice that was coming to my head is that but you have a plan. You know, if this and so, one of the things that I started doing from that month is I would uh I started doing this thing where at that time I wasn't a pro at budgeting.


So, what I did was something very simplistic before I received I get a notebook and a pen. The old me would get a notebook and a pen and I would be, I would list down the things that I needed to spend money on that month. So, I'll write, I need to pay my rent. I need to pay my utility bills. I need to do grocery shopping. Um I need to do. those are the main things I need to do grocery shopping and then I would write um then this month, is the day that I'm going to talk about this month.


So, way before I received my salad, I had a plan. So, unfortunately, people do the opposite. and then, for me, way before like um impulse purchases and peer pressure hit me. I already had a plan. So, that's one thing that I would advice you guys if you want to get out of bed way before you receive your solo sit down and ask yourself when my salary comes in, what am I going to use the money for or how am I going to spend my money? So, for me, that was my biggest challenge another challenge I had uh which now connects to the person who asked about the habits, his impulse purchases as I said, like one of the things that got me uh into that is buying clothes, shoes, with nonsense to is because the truth is if you have like ten pairs of jeans and you know very well that Una and those are the two that you look at yourself in the mirror and you're like, hey, I look nice.


All the others that are close to it So, for me, that's what I did. Um I got rid of my impulse purchases pole. So, one practical thing I did is that I knew that the one person in my life will influence my my impulse purchases was my cousin. So, my cousin has this shopping to she sells clothes and the problem is he's the kind of person who sells very nice clothes and he's the kind of person who likes owning a lot of clothes. So she she was identified my direct problem. My problem was my cousin My cousin. She's like my sister. in the middle of and he convinced by the time almost every week, I would spend like three K from her.


So, what I did, I called her and I told her, I told her issues we don't have a war but I'm not going to be passing by your shop for the next 1 month. Like to come at home, she has no friends and me on the clothes to buy. So, that's what I did. I managed my triggers. My trigger was passing by my car in the shop and buying clothes. So, I, that's how I managed my impulse purchasing the habit by not passing through a mall but not passing through to I will not see the things that are making me get stuck into that and by not seeing um I will not buy them and so that by not seeing them, it gave me time to think about my journey and why I want to um why I want out of that and then that will influence you guys to like get out of debt is sitting down and asking yourself, why do I want to be debt free? So, the reason why you want to be debt free is not even because Agatha had had it free.


Ask yourself why. So, my why and I joke about this a lot and people think it's a joke but it's very true is that I do not want to ever go back to poverty 2.00 like as a child, I tell people that I faced enough poverty. I have been broke enough in my life. I do not want ever to be broke again as an adult especially situations that I can control.


So, that's my reason. Every day I wake up the the anxiety of of getting back into poverty. So, ask yourself, why Why does getting why is getting out of debt an important thing in my life? So, I do hope that has answered the question. Um you had to break many habits that you go to do. How do you break these habits? I've said avoiding my triggers. Uh so when they call you and threaten you, I told you you didn't have cash. Where did you get the cash to pay on that day? Did you have to groom? No, I didn't have tomorrow to pay that debt. Here's the thing.


Yes, they threatened me but they didn't come. You know II think they will call you several times before they they literally start now making a practical steps towards coming for you or something like that. Um so, I didn't take another Debt. What I did is what I said, I would take my my book and write the because I had a job. Remember I had a job and one of the ways that I was losing money or I was wasting money is by impulse purchases So, I stopped. Um I stopped the impulse purchases and started using that money to pay the debt. So, that had the power to end in that story ended like that is there Um I think I've answered all those questions right Um so, I was I was just writing down um what you are taking down the point of what you are saying. Um I think right now, the threats they make it it was even highlighted on the on TV just recently. I think last week. Yeah. So they will call your relatives and all that but hey, please avoid that.


Yeah because for me I've I've had people who have had text written to me. by debt collectors. Um tell your friends to and you're like, so you call the person and you're asking them. So, what kind of a situation are you in? I don't judge. I don't judge because I don't know what someone is going through but I tell them. So, make a plan of how you're going to to get yourself out of the debt. Last year was a very hard year for everybody here and we all got ourselves in situations where we probably do not want to go again.


For me, I got myself in a situation where I didn't want to ever go there again. Um reason being a yes, I have we run Africa. Um it was a startup. It's still we have just gotten our fast funding after 3 years of running the company. So, we didn't have everything for the last 3 years. Everything that we were getting was going back to the company.


So, we're not paying ourselves and we, I had another company that I was working for before so I was relying on that one source of income. Yeah. So, the one thing that last year taught me is do not rely on that one source of income because what happened even that one source of income came to an end like the company couldn't pay. Yeah. So, it was it was more like passive income that is coming through every month. So, I know even if I'm not getting money from my company at the moment because it's everything is going back to the company. All my bills are getting paid. So, I got to a point where I have fifteen has reached this company has not sent money So I'm wondering, okay, what do I do? Yeah.


Um So, kind of got into depth but I decided let me go not into the depth of um where it attracts interest. So, borrow from family, angel investors. I call them angel investors because then they never give you money with uh interest and anything. So, the one thing that last year taught me is never rely on one source of income as many as much as you can try and see whether you can and that is coming now to another conversation. Agatha, we just start your very briefly Um much as possible to get to um at least more than one source of income. So, that's more income streams so that when one is hit, you have a buffer or the other one.


Yeah. So, I want us, I want you to tell us how um II know you have mentioned before how you tried to get into how your blog now started earning more money and how you can your passion, your hobby actually into into but I also want you to encourage other people to do the same, Okay? So, of course, I actually one of the best life hacks uh or debt management hacks is earning more money because as you can see, as I told you guys from my debt debt freedom plan that I had Um I was to be debt free in Feb 2022. Uh if I continued to pay 10 thousand shillings every month towards my debt but because I started making more money from my blog. That is how I was able to be debt free. 10 months ahead of my scheduled date. So, getting an extra source of income is the best life hacks when it comes to achieving that freedom faster. So, get an excess of income. uh so that all that money can go towards um can go directly towards repayment of debt like I did.


So, um as a way to encourage other people, I would say the the First thing that I want to make clear is that people romanticize the idea of having a side hustle and I'm glad that or or or starting your own business. I'm glad that you've said that it took 3 years of um reinvesting the money, reinvesting your business money into the business for it to like finally like kick off and become a real thing. People romanticize the idea of starting a side hustle and it making you good money It's not easy. It's it's very hard. It's very very hard because even for me uh I started on this blog at the beginning of 2020 like in January, 2020 and right now, it's mid 2021 and this is the time and as I said, it's the the it's not even paying me. It's not paying all my bills but this is finally the time where I feel that was a good, that was a good decision like starting uh being dedicated or consistent on that platform was a good decision.


So allein so von mir I told myself, I am going to publish an article every week for 1 Year and and it was daunting every week would come and somebody would ask me, so, where is this week's article? And I'm like, god II don't have the motivation but then I stopped. uh looking at my my side hustle as motivation because that's the other thing. If you wait for motivation, motivation, I usually say perishable. Um if you wait for motivation, you'll never do it. So, um commit to being consistent that if you say you're going to be showing up every day or every week or every once every month to to this side hustle or show up for it every every day, every week, or every month. However, you're it has already set up and keep on keeping on. It will it will come through at the end of the day. I do hope that answers your question because um I don't want to like get into the nitty gritty of of blogging because maybe not everyone uh in this in this webinar wants to start a blog.


Yeah. So like maybe that was like a generalist is the main thing Alright. Um so, yes. you don't have to. Not everybody has to start a blog but look at your hobbies, what you enjoy doing. Um if you need to start a side hustle um and then look at anything that is not going to, you're not going to spend so much money already probably or in debt, something that you're not going to borrow so that you can start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, something that you don't have to spend so much money so that you can kick it off and then try and make it work for you if it's um I see people at um and all that decorative and um they sell them online. Um I see my son telling my brother, I'm coming to paint your house and then you pay me 200 shillings. So he's not in debt but yeah him. he's building his wealth as he says. Yeah. So something that you're passionate about and that will not cost you so much money for you to start try and start it and something else that um I want us to touch on lightly.


Uh something that you've been writing on a the last 2 weeks was on black Tarts Um so black talks can just be, I don't know. I think everybody has heard about it. Yeah. it's it is those things that you do for your family or your friends um especially for family and and they feel they're entitled to your money. I don't know how how else I can put it in a better way but they feel that they are entitled to your money.


So, some time back when I was when I started working. Um Everybody in your family is looking up to you and all that um and I remember someone asked me for money and I told them I don't have and they ask me, so, what do you do with your money? And I was like, sorry. Um uh she's my money. What do you mean? Like it's it hurt me. Yeah. And I realized most of the time you actually get into debt. so that can save other people's **** because you feel you need to.


Yeah. Because that is your family because you cannot let you, you cannot let them down. need to get into debt for that. No, whatsoever. So, what I for me, what I do is write down my list of priorities. I have a budget on a monthly basis and then I have a miscellaneous amount here. So, it it's the miscellaneous amount is for those birthday parties that you have to contribute to baby showers that you have to contribute to. Um wedding committees, barrier committees, and all that you have to contribute to if my are located amount is 10 thousand shillings. Yeah. If there are any things, anything else that comes up in that list that your ten KI mean, Let's move on to next Monday.


It is not in my budget. That is what I look for for myself. I don't know what you do. I don't know what your story. I said, I know your story but I don't want to say your story but yeah, tell me, tell us Okay. for me, Blackjack is is something I'm very passionate about because I've been to hell and back when it comes to to I've been dwelling back when it comes to black dots because in my family set up among my siblings. I'm the one who makes the most money. Um so and and the thing is I am the youngest but I'm the one who makes the most money.


So, there's a lot of things at play. There's the thing of because you're the youngest. we can bulldoze our way to asking you for money and also because you make and you do not have children. So, I think it's because we don't have kids. Uh how about you boost our lives? You know, it's it's a lot it's a difficult conversation.


Uh and it's something that a lot of people go through and I would like to give an example of a lady. I recently, I was having a conversation with recently and and this lady, she works at a as an Ähm Uh somebody who's in her late 40s and who has kids who has who has three kids and is married and of course, has all these responsibilities in life. So, seeing this profile, what happens is that unfortunately, she still has to contribute about sixty 60 thousand to have to have um both her parents and her in-laws like a total of 60 thousand per month yet. I've told you that this person only gets 45 thousand shillings in her bank account. so and She manages to contribute this 60 thousand by one. um by her side hustle is using her side hassle and also Debt. So, she takes up a lot of debt uh to be able to contribute to this 60 thousand shillings uh towards her. um her parents and also her in laws but the the saddest thing about this story is her siblings do not contribute anything towards her parents.


So, the burden is only on her. She's the only person who's contributing to her what her parent's well being and so I asked her how did you get into this situation where you are the only one and every other person had a job. How did you get to in this situation where you're the only person who's contributing towards your parent's upkeep and she told me uh and and one of the things with the convention we realize is that assumptions people in her her siblings and her relative have these assumptions, that assumption that she makes a lot of money simply because she's an engineer at so like one thing that II do tell people when it comes to dealing with tax.


You need to talk about money. You need to create an environment in your family, in your extended family where you can have um you need to have uh uh out to create an environment in your family where you can have candid and honest conversations about money because not having conversations about money creates all these assumptions because for example, this lady, people assume that she makes millions per month like she she told me that people usually assume that I make millions a month and so when I to around 60 thousand towards all these people think that is my pocket change yet, that is way more money than she gets in her bank account and so this lady in her late 40s, she has found herself in a situation where she has no determined plan at all and her network is negative and if you're, you know, your network network is your assets and your liabilities and has a cost to it for and so it's a very sad situation. So, one of the things I told her is go sit down with your sibling Go sit down with your siblings and give them and tell them a candid conversation and tell them that if I continue with this trend of being the only one who has the burden of contributing towards my parents, I'm going to end up in deeper debt because right now, I'm already in debt and I'm going to end up retiring into poverty and so that's the danger of the situation of black tax is if we do not have on it, we are never going.


None of us in our families is ever going to build generational wealth because that's the whole point Uh and so for me, Um I have a few and now it's a good way to say that I'm actually writing a book. Um um maybe it will be published later into a copy but I'm actually writing an Ebook on this thing because it's one thing that I've realized that a lot of people suffer when it comes to an Ebook and so um and you know that black tax affects you in several ways.


So it affects your ability to save where um you know, you don't how it affects your ability to invest. How do you invest in ten people in your family. I'm expecting you to contribute towards their life and also it's it it it's screws up with your mental health. You know, where if people have all these assumptions like this lady for example, people, people assume that she makes bank, you know, that she she makes a million shillings per month yet she only gets 45 thousand shillings and so people when even through a family gathering, people expect her to be the person who's pulling and the problem is you have to keep up. You have to keep up with this image of people thinking that you make so much money. So, it messes up with your mental health and you know the cycle. If your mental health is terrible, then Ta-da, you're not able to walk, you're not able to even come up with your side hustle.


Um so, there are different ways that you can tackle this situation. One, as I said, have honest conversations. Um two literally save out to be a minimum 10% of your savings uh of your income. It doesn't matter You're you're your first responsibility. You're your primary responsibility even way before other people. Like for example, if you have kids, your primary responsibility is you and your children or your spouse. You know, those are your primary responsibilities. So, before you send money to your uncle, before you even send money to your mom, you need to fast. Um make sure that the people who are your nuclear family, who are your primary responsibility assorted and then you or other people Um so that is one way of dealing with the tax removing yourself from the dependency cycle but it's starting to impress another way.


As I said is determining who is your primary secondary, and tertiary responsibility. If your uncle uh who who has his own household keeps on calling you for for contributions. Uh ask yourself, how do you send money to your uncle before you pay your child's school fees? You know, you have to have your priorities right, Budget for it.


You know, if uh puts like said uh she had she budgets for 10 thousand, she looks to contribute towards black. That's do the same. Ask yourself how much money can I comfortably How much money can I comfortably contribute towards people's needs? Um can I comfortably contribute towards people's needs and your personal Um I mean, I tell people that I am, I don't work for I tell tell people that I don't work for an ambulance company and I don't work for obligated. So, please try your level best to solve your own problems before you call me, you know, because I am not your solution. You are your own solution. um and one Mohawk, I would say is set a deadline for how long you're going to be helping these people uh because for example, if you are paying school fees for uh a or a sibling um okay, if you're if you're remember that there's also the topic of people who are below the age of eighteen that you really have to to support.


For example, or younger siblings, those ones you literally have to include it in your budget but if it's somebody that for example, a relationship you're helping to set up a small business for example, set a deadline for how long the beginning of the support so that they do not think that you're here to support them in perpetuity or you're here to support them for the next 10 years. Tell them, I'm going to support you through this process for the next 1 year. so so that they they know in their heads that after 2 years, it's it's a done deal. It's after after 2 years or 1 year, it is upon you and we are not be able to to continue supporting you because if we continue supporting you then it means I'll I'll also be jeopardizing um my ability to retire and so and so there, of course, the biggest um solution to this thing is saving for your retirement.


You know, the thing is um the the one thing is that due to poverty and lack of financial literacy, um our parents think that we as their kids are and a retirement plan that's the problem. A lot of parents see their children as a as a retirement plan Yeah. So tell me that when you're going to school. Yeah. Um minutes ago, How many times have you seen in the news? Uh it's a very sad thing. I see in the news every time uh where let's say god forbid somebody gets killed, you know, by a police bullet or through a bet or something and when their parents are being interviewed, the parents usually say, and they're like, what do you mean? What do you mean? You know, so people think that their kids are dead plan.


So, no matter how many stones may be thrown at me, I'm here to tell you that your children are not determined to plan. Your children are not a retirement plan. You need a retirement plan. So, before you get um before you get bombarded with requests of weddings, do not contribute to people's wedding. By the way, if you do not have a retirement plan, if you do not have a retirement account, you should not be contributing to people's bad days. baby showers, retirement, baby showers, weddings, because the truth is 95% of the people in this outlive. their savings in retirement. Imagine 95% of the people out leave their their money in retirement. I retired 2 years later, you're, you slide back into poverty after 40 years of working. It's not right. So, from day one, from your first paycheck or even if you've not already started, start saving for your retirement. It's the only way to stop. Um let children be children. you know, let kids grow up in a healthy environment where they're also taught about personal finance, uh how to manage their money. Do not tell your children that women of course, it's it's a bigger conversation but start saving for your own retirement and have conversations in your extended families about this situation.


Yeah, yeah. I agree. Um I think I've we've seen we have so many stories that's go around um the last few days as well. I've seen on Facebook people complaining about the same thing. Uh so you've helped your relatives kids through now. COVID happened. You don't have a job but people are still looking at you 'cuz you and people are talking to you badly because you have said maybe a kid that you are staying with now goes back to their parent's house because even you cannot be able to sustain yourself.


Yeah. So, it's it's it's a very Tay story but one thing that I usually say is for most of us who are givers, always know your limits because the takers never know the limit here and when your **** hits the fan, they never come to you and ask you, are you eating? Is anything happening? What is up with your kids? Can we help you? They never see that. The moment you stop contributing, you become the bad person in the family. The moment you stop helping them aura but You are you you know yourself. You know what? what your financial plan is. Make a budget. If you're if anything comes that exceeds your budget, move it to the next year. Don't kill yourself trying to like someone else's fire. really Even if you lie flat, people will still complain that you're not flat enough. Yeah. So know your limits and then know that whatever like what has said um make Plan for your life. Make a plan for your retirement. Um build yourself up.


Yeah. You do not want to be where our parents are. Unfortunately. Let me say that but where our parents and um when they retire, they start looking at you so that you can start funding there Um now, they cannot do maybe the roofing or they cannot do the finishing and they get stressed and you're here, you have your family, you have your young family, your kids are going to school. Um they start sick as So, you're balancing between do we finish the house or do we take them to hospital? Yeah. So, make sure that you have a very good plan about your financial life and what you want in the future. That is what I can say. I don't know whether there's any more questions that are coming your way. I think they had asked for us to share your blog and I've shared that Um for anybody who had not signed up um who has just joined in kindly send your Email addresses so that we can be able to reach out to you.


Um also, be able to send that Debt planner from a site. um and take any more questions that we may have. Um however, we are willing to walk the journey with you myself, Agatha, uh as Vail and as well tribe, we're willing to walk the journey with you to your financial freedom Feel free to reach us anytime that you want. I think our let me share our contacts again other that you can share your Email. Oh yeah. and then um That's our telephone number. You can reach us anytime that you want. Um we can walk the journey with you from where you are to your financial freedom. Yes. as for joining us. I don't know any last words Um no, like oh so debt free debt Freedom is possible.


II. Think that the time that day I wrote that article about the tree. a lot of people were like, what is that like, you know, and reason being is as soon as we hit adulthood, I I've had these conversations so many times. As soon as we hit adulthood, the first thing that is join us that is our introduction to personal finance as an adult. So, yeah. So, join us and so people think that adulthood equals living in debt and so when when I talk about, when I tell people that I lived debt free or or the the freedom is unattainable.


I think people are like that's and that's a thing. That's something to aspire to. So, yeah, I will tell you. Yes. it's something to aspire to and also to remember that we are not saying that there is a bad thing that is a tool that you can use to build wealth. You can't. yes, you can take a loan to to to invest in your education, to invest in your business and stuff like that but here we we are talking about irresponsible Debt where you take a debt to to um improve your lifestyle which you have no plan on paying.


So, last one is Debt Freedom is possible and as for this session and do Um and on the other side of the tribe. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. I think we have exceeded with a few minutes but I think it has been a very helpful conversation for many of us. We shall share the presentation as well on Emails. Yes, Thank you so much.


Bye guys.

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